Talk:Defender (1981 video game)

Moved

I've moved the page to Defender (game) because various versions of Defender have been released for home systems, cell phones, etc. User:Luigi30 (Ταλκ) 22:51, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

"highest grossing arcade game"

Does anyone know what this means? Reference? Mirror Vax 1 July 2005 20:15 (UTC)

It means Defender is the favorite game of the person who wrote that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.166.22.234 (talk • contribs) 22:07, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Turning

How do I turn around in that game?! --Abdull 19:50, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

It depends what keys are being used to control the 'turn around' function. In MAME, it's probably the Ctrl, Shift or Alt key, but I often reassign them for convenience. Spottedowl 23:14, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

Copyvio?

I removed the following from the article:

==Development History==

It says who the source is at the beginning, but does that mean it was copied word for word from the material, or was it reworded, just using information from it? If it was copied word-for-word, it is too long to be justified under fair use. If it just uses information from it, just cite it as a source with footnotes. In addition, the word "History" in the title should lowercase, not uppercase. — Frecklefoot | Talk 20:56, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

Videotopia

In the second paragraph of the opening, an editor cited Videotopia for some information. What is it? There's no article on it to give it any context. Since it's being cited, it needs to have some explanatory information given about it so the user has some idea as to why it is some sort of authority. — Frecklefoot | Talk 20:58, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

Did Not Violate Copyrights.

Okay, first of all, I did not copy it word for word. Second, I can't cite any footnotes because I got the information from the game itself. You would have to actually play it to see where the information comes from. I didn't get the information from any online source (read: webpage). What was I supposed to do? I'm sorry if my submission wasn't good enough, but what else could I do?

(sigh) I'm sorry if the above sounded upset, but I just assumed that if I posted where I got the infomation from, it would be universally understood that I was citing my sources. Again, I couldn't cite any webpage because I didn't get the information from any webpage, I got it from the game product itself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.245.254.83 (talk • contribs) 16:32, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

International Date Line

The Atari port also included an international date line where if you were close to it and the landers etc. were on the other side they would move away from you. I'm not sure if the arcade version itself included this feature or not. Jon 15:31, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

No, it did not. Centrepull (talk) 00:11, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

In fact there's two datelines, one for the swarmers where the player starts, and one for the mutants 180 degrees around from that.- (User) Wolfkeeper (Talk) 22:29, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Image suggestions for the Infobox

• http://www.flickr.com/photos/racketboy/2355959736/sizes/o/
• http://www.arcadeflyers.com/?page=flyer&db=videodb&id=4405&image=1
• http://www.arcadeflyers.com/?page=flyer&db=videodb&id=1721&image=2

How about the first one? Jappalang (talk) 12:53, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

This whole issue about using arcade game flyers has been discussed on the project several times ad nauseam, with no real concensus ever being reached. Some people are completely in favor of using them, some are lukewarm, some are sternly opposed (for very good reasons). I'm in the latter camp. So, if you're taking a vote, I am very much against using any of them. A screenshot from the original arcade version is the best option. — Frεcklεfσσt | Talk 13:34, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

I favor the second link because it shows the different arcade cabinets. But I'm also fine with leaving the infobox blank too. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 17:39, 8 December 2009 (UTC))

I think the second image would be a good addition to the body of the article for the reason you state, just not for the infobox. Now if we can only legally use it... — Frεcklεfσσt | Talk 18:50, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

I think the only consideration that's in disagreement with flyers is WP:NFCC number 8: "Contextual significance". But I think the argument for significance is strong enough.

Regardless, I'm fine with nothing in the infobox until the arcade image issue reaches some kind of consensus. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 20:17, 8 December 2009 (UTC))

Not really sure about what the whole flyer discussion is; I was going with what I saw in other arcade articles. Regardless, I have no solid opinion on this. The lead image should be about the "whole" game, not just an aspect of it. Thus an image that illustrates the entire subject (physically) could do. However, one can argue that it should show the most recognizable feature of the subject (the root argument for screenshots). The first flyer shows two cabinets and two screenshots (albeit too small as thumbnails), along with fanciful graphics of the game's concept. The second and third flyers are austere; the second shows three cabinets while the third shows one. None of these two show any gameplay on the cabinets' screens (i.e. no screenshots). Although the Defender standard cabinet is fairly generic, the artwork on it is distinctive. Jappalang (talk) 21:18, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

If we are going for screenshots, I think this [1] (from http://martoon.org/defender/) seems better than the one currently in the article (have to reduce its size though)... Aspect ratio may also need adjustments. Jappalang (talk) 21:33, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

I agree that the image you link to is better, but keep in mind we just can't lift images from the Internet willy-nilly. We have to get permission and a whole host of other issues. It may be just easier to take a screenshot with something like MAME. — Frεcklεfσσt | Talk 12:42, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Added an image being totally unaware of this discussion. Using a flyer or poster is a no brainer, it easily passes our fair use test. Just pick one of those three or the one I uploaded and have done with it. We can lift images from the internet "willy nilly", simply because the people who've uploaded them onto their websites don't own the copyright, they can't give permission for us to reproduce them and we don't need to ask. Exxolon (talk) 21:32, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

I don't object to the flyers on fair use grounds, I object to them because of several reasons that have been brought up on the project. I don't want to re-hash arguments that have already been brought up there. See the discussion and try to come up with a consensus there. I still favor a screenshot of gameplay, but many others object.

Just because someone who uploaded a screenshot to the Internet didn't have the copyright to the image doesn't mean we can just nab it. I know, getting and using images on the 'pedia is a pain. I don't like it any better than anyone else. But it's fruitless to try to skirt whole process. — Frεcklεfσσt | Talk 23:51, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

Actually, we can. If I boot MAME, boot Defender, take a screenshot and upload it somewhere, you can grab that image and use it under fair use doctrine and NO objection I make is relevant. I cannot make any case against the use of the image here as I don't own the copyright to the game or any derivative work. Likewise for a flyer or poster - if I had a Defender flyer, scanned it, uploaded it again you could take that image and use it here and I would not have any grounds to stop that. Now let's stop messing around. I uploaded a perfectly relevant image that follows fair use guidelines and is appropiate to show and it was reverted for no good reason - I'm restoring it. If you don't like the image - replace it with another flyer, a poster or a screenshot but it's pointless to leave the space blank when we have perfectly acceptable content to show. Exxolon (talk) 03:16, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

I did scan through that thread - bottom line a project doesn't have any special authority to decide what is and isn't fair use - we've got sitewide policies to cover that. Flyers/posters are covered under the fair use doctrine as promotional material and screenshots work under fair use to illustrate a subject where no free alternative can be created. Precedent for other media is already there - we use posters for films, musicals and plays, screenshots (typically of intertitles) for TV shows, and cover art for books, computer/console games and board games etc - this doesn't need a load of discussion, we can just follow established consensus and apply the same principles to arcade games. Exxolon (talk) 03:35, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

All this business about the monitor.

The section about the monitor in the development part seems to be confusing the board's video capabilities with the monitors capability. It used a standard resolution color arcade monitor, which was capable of the same range of colors as a television set. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.217.37.212 (talk) 02:13, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

I switched out the word "monitor" for "hardware". Thanks for the heads up. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 14:10, 23 January 2012 (UTC))

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on Defender (1981 video game). Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080216072512/http://www.twingalaxies.com:80/index.aspx?c=22&pi=2&gi=3846&vi=17 to http://www.twingalaxies.com/index.aspx?c=22&pi=2&gi=3846&vi=17

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers. —^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 16:16, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

Release date

Following a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games (permalink), I've added a citation to Cashbox for the release date. The game was initially shown at the AMOA show in 1980, but Cashbox seems to indicate that the first non-sample units were manufactured in March 1981. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 19:43, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

While the previous consensus was March 1981, the US Copyright Office lists the publication date as November 11, 1980 (registration number PA0000097373), presumably the date when it began location testing. What do other editors think about changing the release date to November 1980 and the article title to just Defender (video game)? Maestro2016 (talk) 19:15, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

I don't think the copyright office is useful for determining when the game was released. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 03:48, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

GA concerns

I am concerned that this article no longer meets the GA criteria because there are lots of uncited, one-paragraph statements in the "Impact and legacy" section. These should be cited and reworked into multi-sentence paragraphs.

Is anyone interested in fixing up this article, or should this go to WP:GAR? Z1720 (talk) 14:35, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

I can take a look at it, I guess. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 02:44, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

Well, it's not amazing or amazing, but it's probably good enough to pass a GA again now. There was a big quote box that was summarized directly below itself, which is kind of silly, and there were some redundant "see also" entries that were already linked in the article. I removed both. I also removed the citation to the to the U.S. copyright office. It was added by a sock puppeteer who's known for adding poorly-sourced content to video game articles. We already know when it was released: March 1981. There's no reason to go into when it was copyrighted. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 22:02, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

I'm OK with how this article looks now. The Gameplay might have uncited paragraphs, but at the end of the section there are four citations that cover all the information, and I think some of that text might fall under MOS:PLOT considerations, where someone playing the game can make these determinations. Z1720 (talk) 20:30, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

Defender is kind of a big deal, so I'm sure it'd be easy to add some inline citations to the gameplay section if there's content not covered by the existing citations. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 02:42, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Link

Video chess, fishing derby and defender are now playable at www.retrogames.cz enjoy John111tselifis (talk) 22:44, 13 September 2024 (UTC)