Talk:Michael McKevitt

Skip to table of contents

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Michael McKevitt article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Biography

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	An editor has requested that an image or photograph be added to this article.

Crime and Criminal Biography: Terrorism Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the Terrorism task force (assessed as Low-importance).

Ireland Low‑importance

	Ireland portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ireland, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Ireland on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IrelandWikipedia:WikiProject IrelandTemplate:WikiProject IrelandIreland articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Irish Republicanism Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Irish Republicanism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Irish republicanism and Irish nationalism related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Irish RepublicanismWikipedia:WikiProject Irish RepublicanismTemplate:WikiProject Irish RepublicanismIrish Republicanism articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Military history: British / European / Post-Cold War

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	British military history task force
	European military history task force
	Post-Cold War task force

Northern Ireland Low‑importance

	Northern Ireland portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Northern Ireland, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Northern Ireland on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Northern IrelandWikipedia:WikiProject Northern IrelandTemplate:WikiProject Northern IrelandNorthern Ireland-related articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

It is requested that an image or photograph of Michael McKevitt be included in this article to improve its quality. Please replace this template with a more specific media request template where possible.
The Free Image Search Tool or Openverse Creative Commons Search may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites.

Upload

Warning: active arbitration remedies

The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the Troubles, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:

You may not make more than 1 revert within 24 hours on this article (except in limited circumstances)
Neutrality: All editors on Troubles-related articles are directed to get the advice of neutral parties via means such as outside opinions.

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

Comments

It's great that there is a source of the printed word such as an encyclopedia on the Web, that is free.However,it is not free if the information it imparts is one sided and presents only the view of special interest groups such as the American FBI,CIA, MI5,and so on. It has not been proven that Michael McKevitt did anything.His trial has been influenced by the sources I mentioned, and the news media in this country, occupied Ireland, and Britain.As to the irish Republican Army,they killed only 70 people(proven) whereas the amount of people killed by loyalist terror groups at the behest of the British government has been staggering.

Why now have your pages been protected, when not long ago anyone could edit or insert material;do you really not want to hear other,and perhaps more realistic discussions of the same material? It is interesting,considering all the current frenzy about "terrorists" in the world today, that anyone acting for a military organ- ization not in uniform and unrecognized is a terrorist;that also includes the Palestinians,who have been forced into a corner and threatened with extermination merely because the Zionists in Israel(notice that I did not say all Israelis,or all Jews) want them out of the picture. The loyalists in occupied Ireland have been allowed to do as they please by the British government,so that ireland will remain unfree. You may remember,the Irish Republican Army has been working for peace for some time.One hopes the rest of the world does not expect them to submit themselves to extermination merely because others want them dead or in prison.

The attempts, reflected by the rather ludicrously simplistic analysis of Irish history above (which is to history what Mickey Mouse is to the study of mice), to turn this article into poorly written, factually inaccurate propaganda, was the reason for the edit war which led to the page being protected. Various users were involved in reverting the rubbish, which seemed intent on turning an encyclopædic article into a Real IRA polemical press release. Among the anonymous user's attempts at the propagandisation of the article are

using such encyclopædic language as FBI stooge in place of the NPOV reference "FBI agent",
adding in this means very little,considering that Gerry Adams is known to have been paid off by special interest groups,including the American CIA and British MI5.. about Gerry Adams,
to the sentence "which has been regarded as responsible for the Omagh bombing in the late 1990s, which killed 29 people;" the anonymous user inserted however,it should be noted that this is the view of the British media and MI5,not reality.
the insertion of a pro-Real IRA poem that not merely breaches NPOV but also breaches copyright.

The user has repeatedly returned to this page (and others) to propagandise them, using various IPs. As there was no one IP that could be blocked, and blocking the range would have been unfair to others using them, it was decided to protect the page until there was some evidence that the anonymous user stopped POVing it and breaching copyright. As the comments he wrote earlier show, he still wants to agendaise the page, add in slanderous comment and introduce gross factual inaccuracies that even members of the Real IRA privately would roll their eyes over. FearÉIREANN 20:25, 29 Nov 2003 (UTC)

I removed reference to Bobby Sands being a Sinn Fein MP as he didnt stand for Sinn Fein. AlanMc

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 23:51, 27 August 2007 (UTC) Birthplace.It's my understanding that Michael was born and raised in Dundalk,yet the article just states Co.Louth.Wjeanne (talk) 16:28, 15 April 2008 (UTC)hy is this?[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Michael McKevitt. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 16:36, 4 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Michael McKevitt. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 12:48, 24 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Criminal cats

No policy or guideline says that people convicted of serious crimes shouldn't be in criminal cats. A little-seen discussion, with few contributors, on the talk page of a bio of a convicted criminal of the same ideology, doesn't create a consensus to omit such cats from bios based on their motivation for committing their crimes. Including such cats is correct & relevant & is certainly not tendentious. Rarely does anyone remove criminal cats from bios of terrorists of other ideologies. Jim Michael (talk) 12:10, 3 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The policy called consensus says they shouldn't. Consensus at Talk:Bobby Sands#Category additions reverted again and the previous discussions linked to in that discussion (which were far more than A little-seen discussion, with few contributors). This article is already in two relevant categories, Category:Irish republicans imprisoned by non-jury courts and Category:Irish republicans imprisoned on charges of terrorism. FDW777 (talk) 13:33, 3 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia talk:Categories for discussion/Archive 9#Proposed solution to categorising those imprisoned during The Troubles, since you seek to deny the existence of said discussion. FDW777 (talk) 13:36, 3 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

A few editors on a few articles in a few discussions don't create a WP-wide consensus. That 2007 discussion didn't reach a conclusion to not put people convicted of any type of crime in criminal cats. McKevitt should be in Category:21st-century Irish criminals, Category:Criminals from County Louth (if created) & Category:Irish male criminals. None of those are subcats of cats currently on the article, nor vice versa. His convictions were for serious crimes & he was imprisoned for many years for them. Furthermore, those crimes were central to his notability - it's nothing like someone having been an occasional petty thief when they were a teenager which had nothing to do with their subsequent notable career. You insist that Edward O'Brien - who is known solely for having been the Aldwych bus bomber - not be categorised as a criminal. If a few editors tried to push for ISIL members to no longer be classified as criminals, there's no chance they'd succeed. We obviously shouldn't exclude one type of criminal from criminal cats on the basis of their ideology, location or conflict. To do so would be to be strongly biased in their favour, thereby violating our neutrality policy as well as implying that their crimes were justified. Jim Michael (talk) 09:53, 4 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I refer you to @Scolaire:'s comment of Agreed. Jim Michael is fond of saying there is no policy or guideline to prevent him from adding the cat. Well, WP:Consensus is a policy. A consensus was arrived at many years ago not to categorise these people as criminals, and Jim Michael has failed to achieve a consensus for doing so now. I also refer you to my suggestion that you start with the poster boy for people with convictions for politically motivated offences, Nelson Mandela. Why don't you see if you can gain consensus to categorise him as a criminal? FDW777 (talk) 19:30, 4 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]