Talk:Hereward the Wake

Hereward and Harvard?

I remember reading somewhere that a possible ancestor of Hereward's was John Harvard, the man for whom the university was named.

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It does not seem likelt that Harvard could be the ancestor of someone born 800 years before him.86.13.151.12 19:08, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia. We don’t have to resolve this. If there is currently an argument about the use of the name Wake, then we report that. We also report that the name Wake has been associated with this person for centuries. Lumos3 08:12, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The Wake Family Tree

Just finished it (... at last!). Worth the effort though; hope you agree. Fergananim 01:27, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Have you a reason for not calling Hereward the son of Leofric, for not calling him the husband of Torfrida, for not calling him the father of his daughter, Torfrida and for not saying that it was she who married Hugh of Envermeu (Huges d'Envermeu)? (RJP 11:09, 29 September 2005 (UTC))

1 - Because his relationship with Leofric is far from certain. 2 - Because her actual name is uncertain. 3 - Because Torfrida in this instance looks suspeciously like duplication of her mother's (?) name. In any case (unless I muddled) Emma was the name given as the wife of Hugh de Envermeu. If you have any sources which could help sort this out, by all means jump in; its an era where records are often sparce, and family trees are sometimes later forgerys. Thanks for your interest! Fergananim 17:26, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

While I appreciate the work that has gone into the geneology charts I dont believe they have a place in this article as they are now dominating it. Nowhere is there an explanatory note which says why they are here. I cant think of any other article which includes extensive geneology of someones decendents. I think we should move them to axillary pages linked from the article. Or even delete them. Perhaps The Autingas link ( whatever that is ) should hold them. Lumos3 00:07, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

I've just converted both trees to the familytree template. Because of disagreements with other sources, I've suppressed his ancestral tree, and for compactness' sake (and relevancy) I've trimmed his descendants. Hopefully this will avoid the "domination" mentioned above. Fergananim, I've left your original work intact (just commented out), but I think some serious work needs to be done to these trees, both on the genealogy and on integrating them more usefully into the article. —Ryan McDaniel 21:57, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

I removed the tree altogether - its not properly sources and doesn't really add anything to the article. Spartaz ^Humbug! 06:55, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Read with an open mind, what the Gesta Herwardi says on the subject. (RJPe (talk) 08:58, 17 July 2009 (UTC))

Etymology of 'Hereward'

It doesn't really make sense to say 'Hereward' is a Danish name and then follow with the statement that it means 'guardian of the herds' in Anglo-Saxon, so I've changed that. 'Hereward' is in fact an Anglo-Saxon name, just like 'Edward', but it is cognate with Old High German 'Heri-wart' and modern German 'Herward', which mean 'der im Heer (oder: das Heer) Schützende', according to the official German etymology of names given by Prof. Dr. Müller-Freienfels. I've also slightly edited the part about Hereward asserting 'an Anglo-Danish vision' of the future, as this seems to rest in part upon the questionable etymological assertion I have alluded to. Rosenkreutzer 22:16, 15 July 2007 (CET)

Pdgen (talk) 21:27, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree with the author that the "Danish connection" doesn't seem to fit. And it stands to reason to consider Hereward to be an Anglo-Saxon name. And in that respect I want to suggest a slightly different etymological route that seems even more.. logical than the High German one. The old language that connects England to the Anglo-Saxon mainland would be Old Low German rather than High.

There's no problem with the first part of the name, and I give all varieties meaning army: "here, heri, hare, he(y)r.." it's all same old same old. The second part is another story. When you consult High German, you'll end up in a watchtower with a "Wart", meaning any kind of "watchman". When you consult low German, you'll end up in a swamp, i.e. exactly were Hereward himself was found. The "old english" ward is closely related to the modern Dutch word "waard", meaning low lying land (related meanings: island, beach, rivershore et c.). In Middle Dutch (closely related to Middle Low German) you have "werde, we(e)rt, wa(e)rt" meaning the same: low marshy land. Middle Low German has "werder" meaning island. Old High German itself has "warid, werid" meaning island. And, finally in Old English (Old Anglo-Frisian) you have "werod, warod" (with that peculiar "d" more like a "th") meaning beach, shore or bank.

Ergo: via the Low West German language family, call it the "North-Sea Germans" or Ingvaeonians, you get an alternative etymology that suits the entire picture perhaps a little better (wetlands), because now the name Here-ward, stemming from "Heriwarda", means: army + island (or low lying land, surrounded by water). And suddenly you're at the marshes with the Old Anglo-Saxon hero. Now the name precisely means what he did and what the whole tale is all about (hiding in the marshes/island with his army).

N.b.: the oldest mentioning of the name "Heriwarda" I could find, was one that dates all the way back to emperor Otto III who mentions this particular village in the Low Lands (todays Netherlands: Heerewaarden) in an official document from 997 AD.

My 2 cts.

It means "army watchman" or "army guardian".

The "Here" is pronounced the same as the modern German "Heer". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.150.18.228 (talk) 17:55, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

Reversion

Upon reflection, in view of the research tag, someone is going to be offended. I have reverted my contributions. I shall complete the article and place it on my own site with a link from the Wikipedia article. (RJPe (talk) 10:40, 12 February 2008 (UTC))

As a very shadowy figure Hereward is not the easiest of people to write an article about, but this is definitely a poor article, compared to Wikipedia biographies of other figures of comparable historical importance. The phrase "it is said" or the like occurs several places in the article. Are we dealing with contemporary accounts, later legend, and if so how much later from where? What is the Geste Hereward referred to a few times? PatGallacher (talk) 00:51, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

There is a Wikipedia article on the Gesta Herwardi and its text can be found on an external site. See a less dismissive approach to the Gesta Herwardi's account of his parentage, than that of the article. (RJPe (talk) 08:58, 17 July 2009 (UTC))

Edmund King's "The Origins of the Wake Family

Does anyone can provide Edmund King's "The Origins of the Wake Family: the early history of the barony of Bourne in Lincolnshire." (Northamptonshire Past and Present; 5 (1973–7), pp. 166–76) who is cited in the article ? It would be of much help in writing an article on the norman Wake family. Regards, PurpleHz (talk) 19:00, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Hancock's Half Hour.

I cannot agree with the other comments. This seems to be a reasonable summary of the known details of a vaguely known character. If I've interpreted these details correctly, Hereward was the last active Resistance to the reign of William 1st.

I seem to recall that in the referenced episode of Hancock's Half Hour, Sid James wrote phony Lord Byron poems on the walls to try and get the house renovated. I cannot recall a mention of Hereward.AT Kunene (talk) 09:28, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Hereward is mentioned in passing, but I can't see that it's notable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.114.90.248 (talk) 21:05, 11 March 2011 (UTC)