Talk:Ion Antonescu

Edit request on 16 June 2012

Please change beginning of the text Ion Victor Antonescu to Marshall of Romania Ion Victor Antonescu, because the rank should be put first. Mihaimuraru22 (talk) 14:25, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Actually, there is no such guideline on wikipedia, and articles on all sorts of people, monarchs included, do not begin with the title. Étienne Maurice Gérard and George S. Patton as equivalent examples. Dahn (talk) 14:29, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Not done: Mdann52 (talk) 16:24, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Transnistria

Regarding the deportation of Jews from Transnistria, it is (correctly) quoted that "I am in favor of expelling the Jews from Bessarabia and [Northern] Bukovina to the other side of the border [...]. There is nothing for them to do here and I don't mind if we appear in history as barbarians [...]. There has never been a time more suitable in our history to get rid of the Jews, and if necessary, you are to make use of machine guns against them". However, the quote does not belong to Ion Antonescu, but to his Prime Minister, Mihai Antonescu. One would understand the confusion due to both having the same last name, however, they are 2 different people which aren't even related. I cannot remember where I read this, so I have no reference. As such, I ask anybody who can give a good reference to edit the article. Vlad.teo (talk) 15:21, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Marshal of Romania

A good while ago I came across an article which claimed Ion Antonescu was the only field marshal on active duty in Romania's history, all others being either honorary recipients (e.g. several of Romania's kings) or having been promoted while on reserve/retired (Averescu, Prezan). Is that true? If so, perhaps it should be mentioned in the section dealing with his military career. Btw, was his promotion a "legitimate" one, or a self promotion? Is there a consensus among historians nowadays? 143.239.65.71 (talk) 13:36, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

First sentence

I think that the first sentence has to be re-written. The info about the conviction for war crimes should not be presented in the first sentence (the enumeration "soldier, politician, war criminal" is qutie inappropriate, as the last one is not an occupation). Not even for Nazi war criminals (e.g.: Wilhelm Frick) this info is placed in the very first sentence. I think this info should be added here: "where he was tried by a special People's Tribunal, convicted for war crimes and executed" 79.117.189.48 (talk) 19:36, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

War crimes

The enumeration in the first sentence Romanian soldier, authoritarian politician, and convicted war criminal was inadequate, cause the last item was incongruent with the first 2, which described professions. He had not the job of war criminal. I moved that text beneath in the intro section. Avpop (talk) 13:08, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

Survey

I'd like to ask for more opinions about the place where his conviction for war crimes should be mentioned in the lead section. Avpop (talk) 15:40, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

• Comment What about "Romanian soldier and authoritarian politician, who was convicted of war crimes ..." or something along those lines. Would probably expand on the war crimes either a short description of what they were or where they occured (someone more familiar with the article should easily be able to do this). That way war criminal is delineated from the professions, but still mentioned in the first sentence. AIRcorn (talk)
• Comment I would agree that the lead is somewhat biased. Always the winners of wars influence the writing of history about those who lost. Some consider him a hero. I think more balance is needed but might start some edit wars, as usual.--Codrin.B (talk) 13:59, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

External links modified

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Antonescu's Full Name

I've decided to remove Victor for the following reason: The Marshal's full name is not actually known. On the Romanian page about him, people are having a dispute about his full name. The page used to be called Ion Victor Antonescu, but it was changed to simply Ion Antonescu due to the full name not being known. Later, a user changed Ion Antonescu to Ioan I. Antonescu in the page's first row, which according to a source is the full name, but the source isn't very reliable. I have decided to change Ioan I. Antonescu to Ion Antonescu on the Romanian page until a clear, reliable source for the correct full name is found, and people have agreed with me. So I suggest doing the same thing here, until we get better sources. Anyway, if anyone knows, where did Victor even come from? I've never heard this name for him. Who called him so and what source did they use? TheBlueMapper (talk) 20:23, 10 January 2018 (UTC)

Îmi este indiferent

I wanted to add I Do Not Care If We Go Down in History as Barbarians to the legacy section but I am not sure if the actor playing an actor playing Antonescu plays Ion or Mihai Antonescu. And I don't remember the actor's name. Do you? --Error (talk) 18:39, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

The phrase was used by Mihai Antonescu, who was referring to the Odessa massacre. That´s a fact. --2A02:AB04:22E:A600:3D7A:1044:7A2D:94AE (talk) 16:38, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

No such thing as odessa massacre 213.233.110.196 (talk) 13:00, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

Peace negotiations - of government Antonescu

As result of the great former u.r.s.s. offensive triggered at the end of 1942 , which has had as effect the encircling of German and Romanian troops from Stalingrad region and of Don elbow,the leadership of Romaniaan state realizing that the war is lost , have gone with urgency to peace talks ,of getting of Romania as soon as possible out of the war.ww2.,

at the following dates ..

2nd February 1943 ,the government of Marshal Antonescu proposes to Musoloni the getting out of war together ,the idea was not accepted unfortunately.
September 1943 at Lisbon with the British Government, but nothing positive is obtained.
in October 1943 with the soviets ,nothing is obtained.
17 March 1944 prince Stirbei at Cairo with the British , Americans and Russians.Nor this time anything is obtained.

In reality the fate of Romania was decided at Tehran, 1943, by the decision to impose unconditional capitulation of German and Romanian troops. 2003:CF:BF17:5CC5:59B7:6497:74A9:C285 (talk) 22:55, 12 September 2020 (UTC)Razu

Opening

Hello, Biruitorul

What exactly did you find bad about my change in the opening? Don't you think it would be good to mention the rank of marshal and maybe the Conducator title? After all, Antonescu is better known under those titles than as a "military officer" or "Prime Minister". Cheers! Lupishor (talk) 09:11, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

• No ethnicity in the lead (basic WP:MOSBIO stuff); coup already mentioned in the lead. But fine, I restored the titles. - Biruitorul ^Talk 13:40, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

Heavy bias

It's important to consider the historical context and geopolitical realities that Ion Antonescu faced during his leadership of Romania in World War II. Any assessment of what Antonescu could or should have done differently must take into account the complex dynamics of the time.

Antonescu's regime aligned itself closely with Germany, and Romania was heavily dependent on German support and military protection. Some points to consider:

-Romania had initially joined the Axis powers, and its alliance with Nazi Germany was seen as a strategic move to protect its own interests and avoid occupation. Antonescu's alliance with the Third Reich was a deliberate choice to secure support and prevent the occupation of Romanian territory by German forces.

-Hitler's views on Jews were well-known, and Nazi ideology had a significant influence on Antonescu's policies. Going against Nazi anti-Semitic policies most likely would have strained Romania's relationship with Germany, potentially leading to retaliation or even occupation.

-Romania's geographical position placed it in a sensitive location on the Eastern Front. Antonescu was concerned about maintaining German support to protect Romania from Soviet advances, which further constrained his options.

-Antonescu faced pressures from both within Romania, including elements of his own regime, and from Nazi officials who were critical of what they perceived as leniency towards Jews. Straying from the anti-Semitic policies could have invited opposition from within his own government and military, as well as from German officials.

Given these factors, it's a complex matter to determine whether Antonescu could have taken a significantly different stance without risking occupation and removal from power. The current state of the article neglects certain crucial facts and understates others, briefly alluding to Antonescu's "supposed" leniency at some point. Although these facts do not wholly exonerate him or cast him as a martyr, it is important to emphasize that his decisions did not occur in isolation, nor were they made from a comfortable vantage point in the year 2023. 51.37.32.227 (talk) 11:29, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 September 2023

2001:B07:A3E:25EE:66A4:190:4481:E481 (talk) 10:36, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

Victims:
Russians

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 10:42, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

"antisemitic"

Evetybody who does not support the jews is antisemitic? Why is this word present near Antonescu's name from the beginning? He was not in love with the jews, so are billions of people, why is this a "thing" that should be mentioned? 46.97.168.120 (talk) 19:48, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

"Conducător???"

Acest cuvânt nu apare în limba engleză. John the man the plan on the train track (talk) 07:19, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

translation: That word does not exist in the english language

John the man the plan on the train track (talk) 08:59, 19 March 2024 (UTC)