Talk:J. P. Morgan

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This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

J. P. Morgan was one of the Social sciences and society good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
January 2, 2007	Peer review	Reviewed
June 23, 2007	Good article nominee	Listed
August 28, 2008	Good article reassessment	Delisted
Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on March 31, 2018, and March 31, 2024.
Current status: Delisted good article

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"In early January 1859, Morgan spent several months in the South"

This seems to need cleanup. It's OR, so it can't be used as evidence in Wikipedia, but my study of the calendar suggests that January cannot encompass several months. Barefoot through the chollas (talk) 17:32, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I added "Starting". Source can be read in Google books. Fountains of Bryn Mawr (talk) 22:25, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Titanic

Morgan was almost certainly not scheduled to be on Titanic's maiden voyage,see https://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/community/threads/prominent-non-passengers-morgan-and-hershey.13921/ Mab819c (talk) 01:37, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. I made a revision to correct that claim, but it was undone claiming that evidence was needed (despite evidence apparently NOT being needed for spreading the myth, I guess). You already provided it, yet the user who undid the revision said I should take it to the Talk page. Well, here we are. Further source: https://www.titanicswitch.com/federal_reserve.html

It is a total urban legend that Morgan ever intended to sail on the Titanic, there's no evidence whatsoever he did, and actual evidence against it. 69.255.81.225 (talk) 11:39, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Message boards and conspiracy sites are not reliable sources. Need something way better. Fountains of Bryn Mawr (talk) 00:19, 24 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The sources provided here in the links you can follow and see the actual, documented evidence supporting it, unlike the Chernow book (which is not available to see, so who knows what it says, and I'll wager 100% isn't sourced itself, Chernow just repeats the urban legend uncritically). What I linked is not a "conspiracy site," it's a *debunking of conspiracy* site that is extremely well-sourced. It literally provides prima facie evidence Morgan had no plans to be on the Titanic:

https://www.titanicswitch.com/images/JP_Morgan.jpg

There's no way Morgan could have intended to travel to Cherbourg, join the Titanic April 10, arrive in New York April 18, and been able to be in Venice as he planned by April 23rd. Mark Barber--who is a very well-respected Titanic historian, not a mere message board user--compiled a list of Morgan's annual transatlantic returns from Europe, and he never sailed back earlier than June. No one has ever produced a shred of evidence beyond hearsay that Morgan planned to be on the Titanic. At the very least, if it must be stated in the article (why a rumor should be so, I don't know), it should be noted as disputed and without first-hand documentary evidence. Fair enough? 69.255.81.225 (talk) 00:50, 24 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Again, we can not base content on what people on message boards think they see in primary sources. This claim comes up in published sources (a couple [1] [2]). The flaw I see in the message board pundits analysis is we do not know when Morgan booked his trip (and published sources do not make a claim about that). It could have been months or years ahead - he was an investor with his own private cabin - so maiden voyage dates slide (Titanic took 7 months longer than Olympic to construct and missed its original maiden voyage date), mistresses and medical problems come up and plans change. Fountains of Bryn Mawr (talk) 13:05, 24 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Further:

Fountains of Bryn Mawr (talk) 13:52, 24 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This is a silly construct. Morgan did not have "his own private cabin," as if there was a dedicated cabin for him on the Titanic. The myth states he took over a ticket already booked for the port side parlor suite, which eventually was occupied by Ismay. There were four such parlor suites, and they were not designated as owned by any particular person, Morgan or otherwise.

The bottom line here is that, if the myth of Morgan being booked on he Titanic must be mentioned (and I still don't see why it should be), then at the very least is should be noted as "allegedly," and note that dedicated Titanic historians don't agree that this is true. There's no first-hand documentary sources for the claim at all. If we're going for historical honesty, then it must be noted that the claim is a) unsubstantiated; and b) disputed. 69.255.81.225 (talk) 01:30, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

noted as "allegedly," and Popular myth needs a reliable published source that actually says that. Again/again, we can not base content on what people on message boards think they see in primary sources or compare and contrast that with published sources. See WP:RS/SPS. Fountains of Bryn Mawr (talk) 02:37, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]