Talk:Svetovit

Early discussion (before December 15, 2007)

Tri god'ne s kleti Turci - actually calls Turks as damned Turks.

A cet'ri s crni Ugri - calls Hungarians black, which means bad.

--Grigoryev 06:20, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

How come the Światowid is incorrect name? Halibutt 14:32, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

It's not an original name of the god, but a wrong 19-th century reconstruction of the name. Boraczek 18:02, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

Any details?? Halibutt 00:20, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

The article explains the wrong etymology. You can also find an explanation in "Mitologia Słowian" by Aleksander Gieysztor. Boraczek 20:11, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

Not really. The article and the book explain the ethymology of the word, but they do not explain why one of the names (in modern times the most widely used, BTW) is wrong. It might've been wrong for the pre-historic Slavs who still used personal names as if they were meaningful, but nowadays... You wouldn't call the word niedźwiedź (bear in Polish) wrong just because, according to historical ethymology, it should be miedźwiedź (literally the one to know where the honey is), would you. Halibutt 20:24, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

Well, in my opinion the article deals with the pagan Slavic religion/mythology, so its aim is to describe what gods were in the Slavic pantheon and how they were called. From this point of view, the name which appeared in the 19th century as a wrong reconstruction seems to be irrelevant. If you don't think the word "incorrect" is inappropriate, please change the wording. However, I think it would be misleading to simply list the name Światowit / Światowid along with other names, as it is not an original name. Boraczek 20:50, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

Svetovid is INCORRECT form too. The only correct are: Svantevith (oryginal written Polabian form) or Svętovit (etymological Slavonic form). Svetovid is incorrect like Światowid... And the ethymology from Svitanije is some kind of folk-ethymology... Svęto-vit has "svęt-" adjective like in many other Slavic names (e.g. Svęto-plk = Russian Svyatopolk, Czech Svatoplk, Polish Świętopełk) that means "sanctus, glorious, magical"... And -VIT is used in many other Slavic names too (for example OldPolish name Siemowit, Witosław etc) and it is definetely NOT -viD (from VIDE:TI "to see") - it is from other word (there are many hipothesis about this, one of them are vit- from vitati "to be, to come, to wel-come [welcome] somewhere, later to welcome somebody" [modern Polish witać "to welcome" somewhere and somebody]. The second hypothesis is that it meant "the lord")

Agreed. Svetovid is definitely incorrect, and the article should be renamed Sventovit or Svętovit, as you suggested. -VIT is definitely not -VID, and as I explained above, the only naming Svętovit as Svetovid can be seen in Serbia and Croatia because of a widespread confusion: St. Vitus, transcribed to Serbo-Croatian as St. Vid was associated with sight and the ability to see (vid = sight). In contemporary Serbia, one of the main national holidays is St. Vitus Day or Vidovdan, which was left here during centuries of Roman-Catholic influence in the area. When Roman-Catholicism was replaced with Eastern-Orthodoxy from Byzantium, the holiday was removed from the Church calendar, but remained in folk tradition. In modern times and Serbian-Croatian disputes (read: Orthodox-Catholic disputes), any connection with Roman-Catholicism was denied, and instead pagan roots of the holiday were introduced, and Sventovit was started being translated as "Svetovid" or the "Holy Seer", which is etymologically totally incorrect. Furthermore, there is no evidence that the ancestors of modern South Slavic nations even knew about this deity, while there is strong evidence about the influence and spreading of St. Vitus cult. That "Beli Vid" from a local folk poem, incorrectly presented as "Serbian folk poem" as if it were known to majority of Serbs, is actually St. Vitus, and not Sventovit. Similarly, there are also poems about other Christian saints, such as St. John, St. Paul, St. Elijah, St. Nicholas, St. Jeremiah, and many other saints, and all were given certain attributes and/or nicknames. For instance, St. Nicholas was believed to be the saint-patron of sailors, rivers and the seas, while St. Elijah was believed to bring thunders and rain, and hence nicknamed "Thunderer", inheriting some of Perun's attributes. But calling Sventovit "Svetovid", and presenting poems about St. Vitus as "ancient" poems about him is the same if someone started calling Perun Elijah and presenting Biblical stories about St. Elijah as folk beliefs about Perun. 93.86.28.154 (talk) 15:31, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Spellings of "Svetovid"

I'm having a bit of difficulty with the spellings of this god. The spelling used in this article varies from paragraph to paragraph, making it imply that the text is speaking about a particular spelling of its name, rather than the god in general. --Adamrush (talk) 14:05, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Proper spelling is controversial. Linguistics studies show that god's name was "Svętovitъ" - written in international Slavic-Etymological ortography (from Svęt- "saint, magical, powerful" and vit- "connected to vitędz 'a hero, victorious one' or from vitati 'to welcome, to be').

In original sources the name is written as "Svanthevit" or similar. Polish "Światowid" is just (wrong) XIXc reconstruction made by Slavic antiquities lovers and is based on Polish words "świat" (world) and "wid-zieć" (to see) because Polabian idol had 4 faces or heads and similar sculpture was found in (modern) Ukraine (so called "Światowid from Zbrucz"). I think the only proper version should be original "Svathevit" (like in sources) or at last etymologists-academic version Svętovit.

It should be renamed to SVANTEVIT

What is svetovid? The Polabian deity's name was SVANTEVIT(from proto-Slavic: Svętovitъ) and is typical Slavic name like Svętoplkъ, Sĕmovitъ etc) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.88.89.86 (talk) 13:40, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. Or, more correctly, Svetovit or Sventovit. That D in the end was made out only because in Serbia the St. Vitus Day (Vidovdan, as Vitus is pronounced Vid in Serbian) was being connected with the cult of Svantevit, and so we got Sveti + Vid (St. Vid) = Svetovid. 93.86.28.154 (talk) 15:31, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

What about "Suvid" and "Vid"? Perhaps the word denotes an entity which sees the world with and parallel to the seeing subject, as So-vid? Someone who sees the world with us. The second meaning of "Svet" could be derived from Svetiti, shining. Someone who is a holy subject shines among others in the world, brings light to the darkness, etc. In this sense we see the world (svet) because of the light (svetloba, svetlost) of the holy (finitive sveti, infinitive svet) subjects, such as saints or personified gods, or objects, such as sun or gods. It is obvious the germanic languages such as english already need philosophers to explain language to native speakers, whilst in slavic languages philosophy is stil inherent. :) Ask 59 (talk) 08:01, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

Rugian?

Re: "Many of modern researchers see Svetovid as a Rugian counterpart of the all-Slavic Perun common in Slavic mythology." Can someone replace 'Rugian' with a more commonly understood term, or a link to a wiki article that explains what is meant? --Egregius (talk) 16:00, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Here one shall also discuss a possibility of "Rani" as "the early" settlers of the island. Compare the word "rano" as "early", jutro, žito ... Ask 59 (talk) 11:13, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

Chronicles

I've added the titles of the chronicles mentioned in the article. They are Gesta Danorum (Deeds of the Danes) (by Saxo Grammaticus) and Chronica Slavorum (Slavic Chronicle) by Helmold. Anybody who knows the links with working version of each chronicle please add the references, thanks. I have the copies of these chronicles, however they're in Polish translation. The fragment related to Svantevit worship is also posted in the Polish version of the article. Critto (talk) 21:21, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

Slovenian "pagan" sayings, mythology, Creation of our universe, planet Earth as a "stone/sand in a Sea(universe)- Cosmogony and more

It seems that poems, sayings, etc regards to God Svetovid vividly survived until today in Slovenia. Svetovid is described as "alpha and omega" - the "first one, eternal one" and never as "war god". Saying: " Kar vidiš - to je (obstaja). Kar je - to spoznaš. Kar spoznaš - daš temu ime. Kar ima ime - je uvidel prvi. Prvi, ki je - vekomaj bil. To bil je - Svetovid"

What you see - this is (exists). What exists - you meet it. What you meet - you give it a name. What has a name - has found out(the truth) before. The first One who is - has always existed. This was - Svetovid."

More translated (Slovenian Cosmogony about Svetovid) poems, mythology here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rD6_YmyeGI

slov "to spoznaš" means engl "this you recognize" or "cognize" in sense of cognition

slov "daš temu ime" is slov "poimenuješ" means engl "you denote" "you name, naming"

slov "uvideti" means engl "comprehend"

The translation would then be as follows: What you see - that is. What is - that you recognize. What you recognize - that you denote. What has a name - that he comprehended first. The first which exists - always exists. That was - Svetovid."

Ask 59 (talk) 09:04, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

In my video on Youtube i have intentionally named "Vedic" Svetovid, because Svetovid was equal to Vedic god Shiva. The Slavic term Človek, Čovjek, Chelovek derives from 2 words; Čelo (Forehead) and Vek(= Era). If we transliterate Vek through Slavic we get; Vijek(Vyek), Vyuka, Vyuga, Yuga (="Era") in Sanskrit. According to Slovene Old believers - "humans appeared and become alive after god Svetovid become tired after long travel in Universe(as he was observing his creation with Eyes(from this derives "Vid"(sveti; "worldy, holy, light) Svetovid) and become tired, so he "slept" (read further info bellow for the meaning of Svetovid's "sleeping", "dream") "from his forehead (Čelo) fell drops of his "sweat" and so the 1. human (Manu, Man) appeared. This story is equal to the Mangala Vedic story and also to Vishnu's avatar of Varaha. Mangala is Manu-Gala (Man)+Gala is Glagoliti in Slavic, "throat" in Sanskrit, seaGUL (Galeb in Slavic), Ghauls(Celts), "those who speak (like birds)") where also 1. human appeared after Shiva was in his deep meditation called SAMADHI, from his FOREHEAD fell 3 drops and "become alive. The first human (Mangala = MARS) appeared - "son of Bhumi" (or Sanskrit Prthvi = Slovene Prst (Earth). It is also interesting that Slovenians never said that the "Earth is flat", but said "Earth is a (little) grain of sand in the big Sea, where everything stood still if you put something there (no gravity)" ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rD6_YmyeGI

Sami drum?

Is there a reason for the picture of a Sami drum? Yes, it has a similar segmented circle figure, but as far as I know, the cultures are unrelated. There is no explanation in the text. Scottwh (talk) 22:52, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

Because it is not a "Sami" drum. Example. If you see a cross for example among American Indians it does not mean they were "Christians". Or if you see Mayan pyramid it does not mean they were Egyptians.

Origin???

interesting is the similarity of the Scythian statues: Scythian religion

Of course these people shared similar thoughts, symbolism,... Look for the information above... Svetovid was a Vedic version of god Shiva. His planets were Earth and Mars; forhead and 3rd eye ("drop of sweat" in old Slovene sayings, cosmogonic mythology)were always representing Shiva's mind (forehead) from which came to earth first humans; that's why is human called "Človek" (Čelo = Forehead) + Vek = Yuga; "Era" and Kaplja (drop of sweat from Svetovid's forehead , while he was "sleeping" vs Drop of wisdom from Shiva's forehead, while he was "sleeping" (meditating) in the state called Samadhi) is Kalpa = age (era) in Sanskrit (Vedas)... Obviously that those people shared also similarities with Scythians, although I don't believe that Scythians were Iranic people, but eastern Slavs...

Autochthonous

There is no such thing as an autochthonous human being outside of the Great Rift Valley in Africa. Slavs are descended of Proto-Indo-Europeans, who date to the 7th millennium b.c.e. in the Crimea. The first Indo-Europeans on Rugen were Goths, who subdued the indigents, whoever they were, who may have themselves subdued earlier inhabitants, as humans have been migrating to the island since the Stone Age. Autochthonous! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Finnbjorn (talk • contribs) 03:46, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

Etymology of Ruegen...

The following paragraph is both irrelevant to the section it appears in (worship) and contradicted by the Rügen and Rugii articles. It should be deleted.

"The original name of the island Rügen or Danish Rygen (Polish/Latin: Rugia) at the Baltic Sea was Rujan (meaning red in Old Slavic); thus the name would in translation imply 'The Red Island'. The autochthonous inhabitants of the island were the Slavic tribe, the Rujani, whose name was cognate with the island's; thus translating as people from Rujan. After the destruction and/or assimilation of the Rujani by the Danes, in 1168, the original Slavic name of Rujan was corrupted as Rügen in German and Rygen in Danish." 2601:85:C202:150:A9DB:C559:F5B:5A9 (talk) 14:58, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

I support it. See the main article there:

The tribal name "Rugii" or "Rygir" is a derivate of the Old Norse term for rye, rugr, and is thus translated "rye eaters" or "rye farmers". Holmrygir and Ulmerugi are both translated as "island Rugii". Uncertain and disputed is the association of the Rugii with the name of the isle of Rügen and the tribe of the Rugini. Though some scholars suggested that the Rugii passed their name to the isle of Rügen in modern Northeast Germany, other scholars presented alternative hypotheses of Rügen's etymology associating the name to the mediaeval Rani (Rujani) tribe. 

The etymology claims are thus tenuous and smacks of POV. I delete it. 08:55, 21 January 2020 (UTC)

"Svetovid" spelling any etymology.

Guys , this is so funny to read, because you are making alot of assumptions in the comment section while trying to understand how to actually spell the word "Svetovid" and coming up with such weird and wrong explanations...

If you want to understand how to properly spell "Svetovid", then you need to understand it's purpose , and relate it to the world that ancient Slavs lived at...

There are two main parts of it's spelling consisting of two words...

First is it "Svet" or "Svyat" , and what's it's etymology...

The word "Svyat" - is a much newer word, which is a transformed form of "Svet" it came with the notion of Christianity for Slavs and is the there to represent holiness and divinity of a holy person. It DOES NOT relate to the paganism or our pagan roots, and it couldn't have been used in the name "Svetovid", because paganism and Christianity don't mix, and the word wasn't there when the god "Svetovid" was created.

Now with the word "Svet" - it is a very important Slavic word, which has many more words derived from it (not worth going into them now). The word "svet" itself could mean - the light, shining (svetit), white/bright (svetlij), but most importantly - THE WHOLE WORLD !!!. An example of that you can find in one of the famous Russian classics by Alexander Sergeyevich Pushkin called " The Tale of Tsar Saltan " , and in one of the verses it goes like this "... mi objekhali ves' svet ..." which translates to " ...we have traveled the whole world..." and "svet" is synonymous with the word "world".

If it is the most (or one of the most important gods), it can't mean anything else but the "world" , I will give an example at the end...

Now with the next part, is it "vit" or "vid" , this is the most controversial one, and I have my own opinion on it, but because of it's controversy I'm not gonna get into it's etymology now... although I believe the word "vid" to be older than "vit". And "vit" being a severely metamorphed word with many reduced letters , unlike "vid" ... The word "vid" in a modern Slavic language means - view/look ...

So basically there's only one possible written form of the word "Svetovid", if you just think about it... and it's "Svet o vid" which translates to " looker over the world" or the " world onlooker" or basically someone who looks over the whole/entire world. It is just that simple, and everything sets into place if you just understand our ancestors logic, and know a bit of etymological history...

Now, let's check our theory for falsehood... How would you picture a god (a deity) that looks over the world? And what did our ancestors know and think about the world?

For them it was a flat earth , with a 4 directional space plain. You can find 4 spacial coordinates in any modern compass or civilization, and it's always 4, with other ones being derivatives of those 4. Also, as all gods, in every religion, especially important or main ones, were always pictured as humans or human like...

So after we've realized that , we can try to construct our image of how the god "Svetovid" would look like...

So there has to be at least a head,so that the god could be able to see... And to look over 4 spatial directions ,you would need 4 heads with 4 sets of eyes... Oh wow, coincidentally that is exactly what we will find in how "Svetovid" was depicted by our ancestors. The mystery has been solved.

All we had to do is to use our brain and logic.

So the long story short... The original correct spelling is "Svetovid" with possible toned down dialect variants.

--ДОброМАкс (talk) 01:18, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

This article needs work, also "Svetovit"?

Can someone please work on this article, it has alot of missing information and broken sentences as I don't have time...

Also my original concern with the etymology and spelling of the word "vid" or "vit" came to fruition... It just dawned on me that the last part of the word could just be it's ending as in "it" which basically overemphasizes the first part of the word. Making it wholesome/ it's final , conclusive form, and personifies it. Making the original word itself a bit longer as in "Svetov", and the "o" and "e" connective vowel rule is not needed here, which makes perfect sense... and the ending letter "v" on the end signifies "vse" (all). It's a common Slavic word ending part "it" which is widely used in Slavic word morphology for example: govor - govor it , bol - bol it , bur - bur it, gar - gar it (signifies a person/thing or deity) and so on...

Then you would read Svetovit like it's an actual person, which makes sense, and the only ending letter which could be applied by the Slavic rules of morphology is "t" and not "d". --ДОброМАкс (talk) 02:40, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

Picture

User:Sławobóg I see you have added another picture as the main image in the article. It is better than the old one yet I do not understand why you are so against the Andrej shishkin painting? it has a way more "Slavic" feel. the other two photos you keep adding are not so. besides most of your other articles have paintings from the same artist. you threaten to report me for changing it then you go ahead and add one of your own, are you the owner of that page that you can change the picture when you see fit and deny others the ability? i can see you have done a great job of adding slavic articles to Wikipedia and that is commendable, yet this does not give you the right to act like a dictator. you do not have any concrete reason for reverting my edit. I have explained all my edits yet you never do you just keep reverting without logic.Joe Flats 123 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 23:59, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

• You haven't explained anything, it is just your personal preference. Meanwhile I use specific picture because it is close to historical description of the idol. And the painting by Shishkin is further down in the article. You've already been warned for vandalizing by @Wesoree:. Sławobóg (talk) 09:22, 2 September 2022 (UTC)