Talk:Pita

One name for every pastry

It maybe is a little complicate for normal Americans but I hoped Wikipedia people had done a little research. Pita is a name for almost every flatbread that exist in the word.Pita is a general word in most countries (like soup in English).

The word pita is older that most people think in the Plutus by Aristophanes in 3rd cent. B.C. is used for the bread as a side dish but also as bread filled with jam before baked(almost a pie).Most people I asked in my life tell me the word is older than that, but everyone agrees that the name was spread in middle east and most of the wold by Great Alexander's Conquest. There are some documents for this. In Greece the word itself it still used for any type of pie but the flatbread we warp our kebabs or (pork)gyros to make souvlaki is called "Eλληνική Πίτα" (Greek pita) because kebab is actually arabic word and recipy but that type of flatbread is called Elliniki pita overthere in Arabia.

• Arabic pita is the original one with the pocket usually filled with falafel of beef gyros.
• The pita in the picture on a conveyor belt is Islaely type.
• The Greek pita is the one which is the one that has a soft, chewy texture and is pocketless.
• Also khubz is also called Irakish pita in arabia and Irak.
• Pita chips, oh come on people, it is just tortilla chips with wheat flower insead of corn.

--Yes we all use the name of our countries to distinguish what type of pita we are talking about but each of us when we say pita is always the type of pastry we make most in our houses.Yes peple still use flour a lot

• Also pita not the same with peeta (not to be confused with Peeta ) but relative its Norwegian pita, soft and chewy, like the Greek one. that's all plz correct any field that is needed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.131.148.77 (talk) 21:23, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Oh my god you people there is no reference about where I have read that the word pita is used on that play, oh wait, a minute it's actually written in the play does that counts as reference? Plutus is public domain by the way. the rest is real life experiences no reference I didn't kept a diary when I was 3. What pita and pita-bread bread is common knowledge here in Greece, my mother, my father my two brothers and me (3 boys) make pitas. thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.131.148.77 (talk) 22:34, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Article split

Any chance we can split these 3 categories into seperate articles. Anyone know the best way to do this? Pita as in the bread has the most links coming here, maybe the other two could be redirected? --Greg Godwin 07:17, 12 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Why does this page have a cleanup block? Does it refer to the comment above? If yes, that's solved now that there's the pita disambiguation page, right? 217.187.205.101 21:46, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Names

The word "pita" is used in Romanian language for bread, of any type and is a derivation of the Latin word "panem" (bread). During the centuries, many populations adopted this manner of baking the cereals, all over the Roman Empire. Later, in the 7th century, the Middle Eastern populations, including the Arab newcomers, learned to bake the "pita". It is interesting that the ancestral original Roman / Romanian word is preserved for this kind of food, over a large area of the World. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.196.150.157 (talk) 17:39, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

The article claims that pita is called "Arabic bread," "Syrian bread," etc. in Middle Eastern countries. Does this strike anyone else as unlikely? Americans don't call pullman loaves "American bread," do we? (We do have something called "American cheese," but that's because nobody else eats it.) As for Israel, they call it pita, nothing more. Flourdustedhazzn 16:01, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Taken from Talk:Shawarma (where you should throw in your opinion):

In both Syria and Lebanon, two types of bread are available for shawarma (and for falafel). One is called, in Syria anyway, khubz siyahi (tourist bread), and is essentially pita, though the individual breads are at least 20cm in diameter while a lot of pitas I have seen in other countries are much smaller. The other is called khubz 3arabi (Arab bread) in both countries, and is much thinner, composed of one layer rather than the two of pita/siyahi bread, and slightly bubbly and stretchy in texture. quoted from User:Palmiro

khubz 3arabi appears to be synonomous with Israeli lafa.--199.67.138.84 14:44, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

In Israel, k'yadua, there is pita druzit....with the labneh and olive oil...mmm. I think Americans don't call it "American bread" because they might not be aware that other countries indeed have bread or, given bread, would prefer anything else. --Mgreenbe 17:10, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree with the first part. In Israel, there are varieties of pita and the variation also dictates the usage. yonkeltron 11:38, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Here in the U.S. we, Yemeni Americans, call it "khubz Arabi" "Arabic bread". Also, the brand we buy often from an American store sells this flatbread under the name Arabic bread. I asked my mother what did she call pita in Yemen when she was still living there, and she said Yemenis called it "khubz 3ish"! How many Arabic names are there, really? Also, I personally never heard the term kmaj, and I'm tempted to add khubz 3ish to the article as one of the Arabic terms but I wont as it is best not to overcrowd the introduction. --Inahet 18:04, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

On the names, and the picture. That picture is not what, in Lebanon or Israel, I knew as xubz or pita. That item was made in ovens, and my early morning exodus was to the local oven to get today's xubz and hummus. The bread baked on an inverted wok-type implement was without pocket, crustier, and those blackened places - called [apologies for any spelling, I do not know Arabic] ma'ook or some such variant. --Dumarest 11:12, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

I grew up in a Lebanese American family, and we always called it 'Syrian Bread'. I never even heard the word pita until I was an adult. Anonymous Coward, 8/1/07

Yes its true we all use the name of our countries to distinguish what type of pita we are talking about.(like texas sandwich is not the same as California sandwich or NY.. both in cotext and way o treating the bread) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.131.148.77 (talk) 21:29, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

I find it weird that this arabic bread does not have an arabic page. anyhow, the name in palestinian arabic is "Kmaj", as you can judge by the pictures popping if you google "كماج"

Abbreviations

PITA also can be an English abbreviation for 'Pain In The Ass.' It is slang and is usually found in internet chat between friends. PITA is also the acronym for "Pipeline Integrity Technology Associates"

Note: This is only valid to English speaking people; The word "pita" in many other languages means bread or flatbread. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fillosaurus (talk • contribs) 00:51, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Kmaj

Kmaj redirects here, yet the name is not mentioned in the article. --Dweller 14:14, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Lebanese bread

Lebanese bread redirects to PITA when in reality they are two different things. Any volunteers willing to split the two? --A_Gooner 15:25, 25 October 2009

Sandwichness

FWIW, there was once (early 1970s) an establishment in Van Nuys, California whose primary offering was the 'Taco Italiano'; essentially Italian sub sandwich ingredients in a pita. This was shortly before the pita became widely available. LorenzoB 00:44, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Is this section really relevant, though? I mean, online bickering is hardly noteworthy, and making note of online bickering over whether a pita constitutes a sandwich is just plain laughable. Also, is "sandwichness" even a word? 69.92.157.226 14:15, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Broken wikicode

Section 'eating habits' has some broken wikicode and associated text that I was unable to discern how it was intended to be read and linked. Can anyone figure it out and fix it? First case seems to be a broken link to 'greens (vegetable)' , but it gets unreadable at that point for me. --M.A. 21:08, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Pictures

Just wondering whether there should be more pictures, for the younger generations, you know, that don't know what pita bread looks like.Orangesandlemons 19:05, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

That leading picture is NOT what is usually understood by pita - it is what in Lebanon I know a ma'ouk [spelling a guess] - plain flatbread, no pocket. Pita, with pocket, is not made in the way that picture shows. --Dumarest 20:45, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Pita understanding

The current article indicates that pita is not known by many of the current inhabitants of this world, and more pictures are needed. Somehow I doubt this, it is ubiquitous all over U.S. and that question is irrelevant - although a more relevant picture may be needed I will correct or fix in some sense if no objection. --Dumarest 21:18, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

It's also in Slovenia

its a sort of dessert over here.. very popular, i think its a kind of pita/pie type thing (probably not the traditional Arabic thing) most likely brought up here by the Turks in the middle ages Tyriel 19:08, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Etymology

I split the etymology section, retaining all of the content. Much of that section seemed to be arguing about the origin of the bread, rather than the etymology of the word 'pita'; the etymology part had some sources, the origin of bread pieces have none, which is a recipe for an edit war. Splitting might give the sourced part some stability. Hopefully someone can help with the rest? --Bazzargh (talk) 00:31, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Hi, idk much about how to start a talk, and this section looks the most relatable, please forgive me if it's not correct to type it here. So I have a question about the etymology of pitta, which as you'll see raises a series argument. If the word pitta is of ancient greek origin, how can it be a loanword from the turkish pide at the same time. somethings not right here and i bet it has to do with the job done in the work that is placed as reference 2A02:587:DA41:7B00:3CCA:C42F:B446:3D36 (talk) 01:13, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

Too many categories

In line with the following quoted from WP:Categorization and also with action taken over at Hummus, I have taken the axe to he very long list of categories.

"An article will often be in several categories. Restraint should be used as categories become less effective the more there are on any given article. Use the {{Too many categories}} tag if you feel the article is in too many categories."

--Peter cohen (talk) 19:13, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Peru?

The Oxford English Dictionary, second edition, unabridged says that it is of Peruvian origin, this word "pita," and that it dates back to 1608, and that it's a Spanish word. I think that's what it says. It's kind of hard to read in my edition without getting out the magnifying glass and I already put the book up and don't feel like getting it out again.

'pitta'? http://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1GGLS_enUS291&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=define:+pita

I don't know where they get Middle Eastern, or "Arab," or even Greek, actually.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.122.119.33 (talk) 05:19, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Pita bread recipe

I see that the reference re a pita bread recipe is back in the edit war stage - put it in - take it out. Will peace ever come? --Dumarest (talk) 12:17, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Etymology

Pide is a Turkish word from central Asia —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.179.74.34 (talk) 17:28, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Pizza?

Why is the picture, and link section on the right all about pizza? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.137.203.204 (talk) 03:57, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

See my comment below. Acalamari 15:27, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Removal of pizza information box

I have removed the box of links related to pizza. I don't think it belongs on this page.Jimjamjak (talk) 12:37, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

I only added it because Template:Pizza linked to this article, so I assumed it would be convenient to add it. If the template doesn't belong here, why is the article linked on the template? Acalamari 15:27, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

That question really belongs on the talk page for the template, not here. Looking at the template, it basically has a See also section, which makes enough sense for the template, I suppose, given that pita and pizza are like distant cousins. But I don’t think that everything listed on a template needs to have that template on its page. If you’re looking at all aspects of pizza, it makes sense to include the related dishes, but it doesn’t follow that if you’re looking at one of the related dishes, you’d want to include all aspects of pizza. -- Irn (talk) 02:01, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

This was my thinking in removing it. I would add that just because pita is a kind of bread, it would not follow that we want a template for bread on the page.Jimjamjak (talk) 10:02, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Pita - Pitta

Back to a name war? The reference to 'pita' as the name of this bread with 'pitta' as an alternate has just now been changed to 'pitta' with 'pita' as an alternate. At least the name of the article could not be changed, and if the article is in fact 'Pita' then the 'pitta' should revert to being alternate. --Dumarest (talk) 15:19, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

And the war continues - can some conclusion be reached on this??--Dumarest (talk) 12:06, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

I agree with you on consistency. Either spelling is legitimate but Google gives more for pita whether one searches for it on its own, with bread or with bread immediately following. Of my dictionaries, Chambers gives "pitta" as primary, OED gives "pita" both list the alternates. I've not got a packet in the house and can't be bothered to thumb through recipe books. I would tend to vote against moving. I think it should be treated similarly to other spelling and stylistic variations (British v US, BC/AD v BCE/CE etc.) where possession is none tenths of the law and where those who try to change it should be strongly discouraged.--Peter cohen (talk) 17:25, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

The name is wrong. This is not 'pita', this article is about 'lepinja'. Pita is something different. Mike. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.148.81.93 (talk) 14:24, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Humus - Artichoke hummus

Recent edit results in the following on the site. The picture is identified as a pita with artichoke hummus, but the caption differs from the apparent picture as defined by its name. Is that artichoke hummus on that pita, and I think that the image and the caption should agree.--Dumarest (talk) 11:50, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

The source of the picture [1] is attached to a recipe that calls for artichoke hummus. I don't think we need be too detailed about the topping. At present everything apart form the lemon thyme gets a mention, but surely we can just say that the pits is being used as a base for a meat and hummus dish?. It would be nice to have another picture illustrating pita being used as a pocket - whih is how most Brits will encounter it in a kebab shop.--Peter cohen (talk) 19:49, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Shakshouka

Shakshouka is an appetizer made with "eggplants" and tomatoes. it's not an omelette, and it certainly does not have eggs in it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Keepeast (talk • contribs) 10:40, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

You mean Aubergines? 86.27.115.115 (talk) 15:02, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

See also - XXX Cuisine

I notice that Israeli cuisine has been added and removed while Turkish and Greek cuisines are still there and various other Arab and Balkan countries were not there at all (at least in the period I'm looking at). We need some consitency. Anyone have views on all in versus all out versus objective criteria for selecting exceptions to an all out rule?--09:40, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Levantine Cuisine should be added.--Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 09:43, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Related articles

The "related" subjects don't seem to be very related to me e.g. gibanica, blintz etc. What's the rationale behind their inclusion?Jimjamjak (talk) 10:03, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

This part is incorrect

At the very end of the article, it says that Sabich is a dish unique to Israel, in fact its an Iraqi dish brought by Iraqi jews and eaten many places is the middle east, the dish also exist in Greece but with a different name —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.120.120.62 (talk) 00:06, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Bulgaria

This text needs some improving. For example:

"each housewife prepares a pita and decorates it with symbols to bring fertility to the cattle and a rich harvest from the fields, as well as prosperity to each member of the household."

Rather suggests that all "housewives" do this. I imagine a lot of Bulgarian women work in other "occupations" than that of housewife. There is also a suggestion that everyone is somehow worried about cattle and harvests - slightly out-of-date perception of Bulgarian here in my opinion.

"She hides a nickel in it."

An American or Canadian coin? Seems pretty unlikely to me.

Anyone fancy tidying it up? Jimjamjak (talk) 12:31, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

The word pita does not mean either flatbread or flaky pastry in Bulgarian, but the article currently implies it means one of the two in Bulgarian. It (пита) means a holiday (in the loose sense -- also for things like death anniversaries) bread which can be sweet, or not (usually during fasting). You can google пита to see what they look like. They are never flatbread or flaky pastry. Flatbread is арабски хляб (Arab bread) or пърленка (parlenka), and flaky pastry is most commonly баница (banitsa) or бюрек (byurek), and a dozen other terms for specific kinds of flaky pastry. P.S. It can also mean something like a pie. 94.236.144.198 (talk) 10:01, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

Etymology

The etymology of the English word pita is a matter of controversy (see [2]). The existence of several similar words in medieval times that mean "thin flat bread" makes the etymology given in this Wikipedia article seem highly dubious.--84.111.117.111 (talk) 12:09, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Pronunciation

I've heard some people pronounce it with a long vowel, "peeta", "Peter", some with a short vowel "pitta", "pitter". Which is correct? Or are they both correct but maybe in different regions? Paul J Williams (talk) 13:25, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

"Pita" is pronounced PEE-tuh, in accordance with standard English phonetics. This is the version that prevails in America and in many other cultures, since many parts of the world don't have a phonetic equivalent to the English short-i. The British have their own version of the word, however, which is spelled differently in order to maintain phonetic fidelity. The British version is "pitta" and is pronounced with a short vowel, as would be dictated by the standard rules of English phonetics (doubled consonant in a 2-syllable word, in this case the double T, yields a short vowel, whereas a single consonant would be expected to yield a long vowel, as in the American version).

"Pita" is PEE-tuh while "pitta" is PIT-uh. — Preceding unsigned comment added by PhilHudson82 (talk • contribs) 03:24, 24 June 2019 (UTC)

There is no such thing as "standard English phonetics" - the phonetics change by region, culture and a number of other factors. There is no "right" pronunciation of pita. Your claim that English speakers in many parts of the world don't have a short-i is unfounded. The British spelling is not "pitta", you find both spellings in common use, and it is nothing to do with how the word is pronounced in the UK. Railfan23 (talk) 03:53, 24 June 2019 (UTC)Tha

Origin of the word, false reference

OED does not refer to any Byzantine origin, in fact explains how unlikely the origin can be as suggested by Greek etymologists. http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/144674?rskey=pEpref&result=2&isAdvanced=false#eid — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.248.140.221 (talk) 15:26, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Turker-zver huyasos baker

I have no idea what this means, and considered editing to remove the kind of baker, but I really have no real knowledge of such a term and it may be real -- information anyone? (Dumarest (talk) 18:23, 6 June 2012 (UTC))

Someone keeps trying to reinsert it. Google only shows Wikipedia for this term, and if it is a real term, it's certainly not English, anyway, and equally unhelpful for an English encyclopedia article. -- Irn (talk) 17:29, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Contradiction in the article

The article states: "Its history extends far into antiquity, since flatbreads in general, whether leavened or not, are among the most ancient breads, requiring no oven or utensils to make.". But it then goes on to describe how it requires an oven - and a very hot one - to make. This is a bit confusing, and the article would benefit from clarity on this subject, if anyone has the competence to add it. Nick Michael (talk) 08:35, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

I removed the "no oven..." part. I guess that it is possible to make it without an oven but nothing in the article or references I saw confirms that. Bhny (talk) 16:47, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Etymology: cognate with pizza?

The article History of pizza maintains in its etymology section, that pizza and pita are cognates. If so - and it's not entirely clear to me - the Pita article would be improved by the addition of this fact. Nick Michael (talk) 08:42, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

Arabic Article

I noticed the Language box did not link to the Arabic article. I was going to link it up, but they don't actually have one. They have an article on matza and naan, but oddly not on the most common type of bread. The article khubz (خبز) doesn't even mention pita that much. Very odd. 96.251.15.7 (talk) 23:40, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

From Balashon

Balashon - Hebrew Language Detective: pita. I think this brings another insight on the etymology. Komitsuki (talk) 06:13, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

renaming to 'pide' per WP:COMMONNAME

Gooogle search results, 'pita': 67.500.000 while 'pide': 123.000.000, nearly 2x. kazekagetr 16:15, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Pitta/pita is the word used in English. Also, that's a useless metric, and I don't think I need to explain why. Alakzi (talk) 18:59, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Pita comes from the Hebrew (Keph/Kaph) which means a hollow rock, or hollow of the hand/palm, or palm leaf, or spoon, or bowl, thus a pocketed bread is likewise a Keph/Kaph. The name Peter given to Simon Peter Bar-Jonah is taken from Keph/Kaph. Mary Magdalene is also a (Pita). There is a Pita plant, a wild pineapple, in the Pita group of plants which includes the: Century plant, Agave, Aloe, and wild pineapple. The Latin scientific name is Ananas magdalenae (translated in Hebrew means, "A strong tower highly favored of GOD [sacred name]"). This is unlike the Tower of Babel (Magdla d'Babel - Syriac name) which was highly unfavored by GOD. How can Living Water gush from a rock in the desert unless that rock by hollow? 99.2.124.33 (talk) 17:26, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

Merger proposal

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result of this discussion was not to merge. I will move the "Arabic bread"-related content from Pita to Khubz. --Howff (talk) 05:48, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

---

The articles Pita and Khubz should either be merged or the content regarding "Arabic bread" in Pita should be moved to Khubz. I'm not sure which is better. --Tisanophile (talk) 05:04, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

Oppose. I actually can't think of any reason why a merge would be appropriate as neither the words nor the actual breads are the same, nor do they have the same geographic extension. Pittas are widespread as snack and fast food breads in the Western world, which Khubz is not. Further, pittas are made and eaten across a region that includes non-Arab countries such as Greece, Turkey and Israel. I just looked at Pita and found very little about "Arabic bread", but there is no question that pittas are found in Arab countries also. You are probably right that "Arabic Bread" should not be highlighted in boldface in Pita but that is not a merger issue. Chiswick Chap (talk) 07:32, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

@Chiswick Chap: How are they different? Arabic Wikipedia article of (or, at least, inter-wiki-linked to) pita says the bread is called "Arabic khubz (خبز عربي)". The etymology section of the pita article says other names [of pita] are simply خبز 'khubz, bread' or الخبز العربي 'Arab bread' or خبز الكماج 'al-kimaj bread' --Tisanophile (talk) 08:45, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

Read what I said about geographic extension and usage, which demonstrates clear difference. You cannot rely on what Arabic Wikipedia or any other Wikipedia says, you must rely on cited sources which are in short supply in all these articles (and that is the problem that needs fixed): see WP:RS and WP:V. But even if in Arabic the two were identical, they still would be different in other regions across the world. In Greece, Turkey, Germany, America pita is a recognised thing, khubz probably not. Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:54, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

@Chiswick Chap: I don't know whole lot of Middle Eastern and European flatbreads (I'm East Asian), but as I said the articles should either be merged (if "pita" and "khubz" are different names of the same bread category, as the pita article and its cited references say) or properly separated (if the breads are different as you said) by removing the khubz-related content from the pita article. Which do you think is a better idea? --Tisanophile (talk) 08:58, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

Do you not read? I have explained twice now that these terms have differing extension, even if they overlap in one region of the world (and in some Arab countries like Morocco, the words do not mean the same thing, I believe). If you think an article needs editing, edit it. That's all from me. Bye. Chiswick Chap (talk) 09:06, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

I removed the notice as you requested, but I still recommend you to comment on content rather than on other contributors. Clearly, I'm waiting for the discussion to close before I edit. --Tisanophile (talk) 09:51, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

Neutral. Khubz is not a type of bread actually. It is just a word that is the Arabic equivellant of bread. A french bread will be called in the middle east: French Khubz. Pita today means a certain type of bread that originated in the middle east; this type is considered the standard bread in the middle east and so they just call it Khubz as it needs no other defining names (but when they have to define it they would call it Arabic, Syrian, Lebanese...etc).--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 13:34, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

Oppose. Khubz, or Arabic bread, is not the same thing as Pita, which is uniquely Greek. Various recipes and forms of flatbread eaten throughout the Arab world are referred to as 'khubz', ranging from small flatbreads about 3cm diameter to 30cm and larger. Some is unleavened, some leavened. The known origins of khubz, incidentally, predates that of pita, with origins in Mesopotamia and now finds in Jordan dating back 14,000 years... :) Alexandermcnabb (talk) 05:04, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

References

Claim of national origin in Iraq (was "Parsons School of Design reference removed")

I removed a reference from the article, which had been tagged with "better source needed" for some time, claiming the origin of pita in Mesopotamia. While that is possible, the 1973 Parsons School of Design "Bread Book" is a poor-quality source, being a student publication based on an interview with a bakery owner, and can't be considered a reliable source to establish the specific location of the prehistoric origin of flatbreads. The references were:

<ref>Parsons School of Design (1973). Parsons Bread Book. p. 25. The history of pita bread dates back about five thousand years. Its origin is Mesopotamia.</ref>

and

<ref>{{Cite journal|last=Cesare|first=Carla|title=Parsons School of Design (1896–)|url=http://dx.doi.org/10.5040/9781472596154-bed-p015b|journal=The Bloomsbury Encyclopedia of Design|doi=10.5040/9781472596154-bed-p015b}}</ref>

--IamNotU (talk) 14:18, 18 January 2019‎ (UTC)

@Ghalibrev: I have reverted your reinstatement of the above claim of origin in Mesopotamia/Iraq and the citations of unreliable sources, for the reasons given above. If you feel that the sources are in fact reliable, it can be discussed at WP:RSN. Otherwise if you wish to make this origin claim, a high-quality academic source would be required. Thanks for your understanding. PS, you may also want to read the essay Wikipedia:Avoid the word "vandal". --IamNotU (talk) 14:44, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

@IamNotU: Hi thanks for your help! I have provided more reliable sources to back up that Pita originated in Iraq, thanks for letting me know the source I provided was not very reliable, I am ever grateful!

Ghalibrev, thanks for your reply. I have removed that one unreliable source. I will check the others at WP:RSN. I have also added the information about the later development of the "pocket" pita bread, as opposed to the earlier unleavened and/or pocketless flatbreads, which is sourced to food historian Gil Marks. The relevant quote from the source is:

"...(The sixteenth-century Neapolitan word pizza probably also came from this source.) At some more recent point, bakers in the Levant or Egypt developed a variation of flatbread, creating a round loaf with a natural pocket. The distinctive compartment is produced by baking a lean, moist, yeast-leavened dough in an extremely hot oven; the heat turns the water inside into steam, which then puffs up and separates the interior of the bread into two layers."

-- IamNotU (talk) 01:47, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

Ghalibrev, I've copied the edit summary for your latest removal of the material mentioned above: Special:Diff/886310893/886468400, to here, so I can reply. Please note that edit summaries should be used to explain your edits, not to carry on a discussion with other editors - you should use the talk page for that, thanks. You wrote:

that is literally a description of pita???? all pita is made this way this is not a recent development and is the same as when it was founded in mesopotamia?? you need to read the source you provide. pita is not a recent development and there are no recent developments; all pita is made this way and pita originated in mesopotamia.

Not all pita is made this way. The Greek version of pita for example does not have a pocket. I have in fact read the source I provided, and I quoted it above. It's from Gil Marks, a notable food historian and writer. It clearly says that the steam-puffed, two-layer flatbread known in English as pita, is a more recent development. If you have reason to believe that Marks is wrong about this, please help by providing high-quality reliable sources that refute it, as I haven't been able to find any. That would mean, preferably, books published by an academic or scholarly publisher, by recognized experts in the field of food history. I'm sorry but citations of "Dr. Foodle", or of childrens' books and blogs by bakery owners, are not good enough. I'm not saying you're wrong, but Wikipedia can't take the word of an anonymous editor - a source of greater authority than Marks is needed in order to justify complete removal of this well-sourced material.

I don't dispute that flatbreads were part of the ancient Mesopotamian cuisine of about 4,000–5,000 years ago. However, this doesn't mean it's the origin of such flatbreads. It's the first recorded history of them, because it is the first recorded history of anything, as it's the time of the invention of writing. However, there is direct archeological evidence of similar bread being made at least 14,000 years ago, in modern-day Jordan, and about 9,000 years ago in modern-day Turkey.

Secondly, none of these ancient or prehistoric flatbreads are described as "pocket" breads. Practically everything we know about the cuisine of ancient Mesopotamia comes from the Yale culinary tablets, first studied by Jean Bottéro in 1985. His book The Oldest Cuisine in the World: Cooking in Mesopotamia mentions flatbreads cooked in a tannur (see taboon bread, tandoor bread, or Iraqi khubz), but as far as I can tell, not steam-puffed, two-layer pita bread. Unless you can provide a very reliable source, that gives historical references, that explicitly states that two-layer pocket pitas originated in ancient Mesopotamia, the material sourced to Marks about it being a later development should be returned to the article. Thanks... --IamNotU (talk) 02:21, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

References

Cyprus Pita

The section about the pita from Cyprus seems inaccurate to me. Firstly the shape is usually oblong or oval not round, and traditionally it is made in a big outdoor stone oven, although these days many people use conventional oven on a high setting with a bread stone (some people will even grill them). The main difference between the Cyprus version and your average pocket pita seems to be the shape as well as a healthy amount of olive oil added to the flour which gives it a nice flavor. It's also worth noting that the ones made in a skillet referenced in the Cyprus paragraph of this article article are what I would call a 'Greek Pita' (recipe here) has no pocket and is usually rolled and not stuffed like the Cypriot version.

Here is a recipe which seems nearly identical to how I was taught to make them.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.105.133.69 (talk) 20:15, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

Merge proposal

I suggest merging this article with Khubz because they are basically about the same subject. Shorouq★The★Super★ninja2 (talk) 12:11, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

The khubz article is a mess. I proposed to get rid of it last year, see Talk:Khubz#Khubz arabi = khubz = pita != khobz. The word khubz simply means 'bread' in Arabic. When used alone, it refers to whatever is the typical kind of bread whereever you happen to be. The article mixes up "khubz arabi" (pita with a pocket, sometimes just called "khubz" in the Levant) with "khubz tannur/taboon" (tandoor bread, just called "khubz" in Iraq, Bahrain, etc., but also sometimes in Palestine, Jordan, etc., depending who's speaking) as though they are one type of bread. I've already merged any relevant content from there to here and to Tandoor bread#West Asia. So that article could be blanked.

The question is, what to do with it after that? It shouldn't redirect here, because pita is just one type of khubz/bread. It can't redirect to "bread" because of WP:RFOREIGN. There's no article or section I can find that's about bread in the Arab world in general; the Arab cuisine article isn't organized that way. If we were to create one, it couldn't be called khubz, because that means all bread, not just Arab styles - French bread is khubz franji - and also we need to use English, so it would need to be called "Arab bread" or something, though khubz could redirect to it. Maybe create a disambiguation page, pointing to the various kinds? Or just delete it altogether? --IamNotU (talk) 18:04, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

We've been talking over at Khubz, suggest we agree ONE location for this conversation? By the way, you'll find khubz tannur and its variants being made in the streets of Georgia - it's an Arab, Turko-Arab, Ottoman thing and unique from Tandoori bread. By claiming all flatbread with a pocket is pita bread and all flatbread made on the walls of a round oven is tandoori bread, you excise the entire swathe of the world between Greece and India - and hundreds of years of human history. That strikes me as most distinctly unencyclopaedic!!! And, by the way, with "I've already merged any relevant content from there to here and to Tandoor bread#West Asia", the solution to the 'mess' you are proposing is to water down the original article by copying its content left and right and then claim the original 'mess' is redundant and deleting it - rather than working to improve the mess between Greece and India. I mean, I know that's some mess, but tsk tsk! Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 04:07, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

It's well-established that in English the most common name for two-layer flatbread in the Middle East is "pita", not khubz or anything else. Content about it belongs here, where it's always been. I haven't "excised" anything. On the contrary, about two years ago the now-banned user Brett Cox here (which I reverted) and earlier their sock Howff here, attempted to delete from this article all mentions of pita in the Middle East and Arab countries, and make it exclusively about Greek pita, though there was no consensus to do so. The "original article" was this one. I've spent some hours (along with others) working here to restore, expand, and improve the material. The "tsk tsk" is inappropriate. Unless someone proposes to repeat that deletion, I guess there's not much more to be said or done here, and we can continue the discussion of the problems with the title and content of the khubz article, or about bread cooked in a taboon/tannur 'tandoor', over there. If anyone else wants to join in, that would be helpful.

I suggest this discussion be closed without merging per se. "Pita" is not the same subject as "bread" (khubz). If the subject of that article is meant to be "bread in Arab cuisine", then it has the wrong title, if it's "two-layer flatbread in Arab cuisine" then it's a content fork of this one, and if it's something else...?? In any case, there's currently no content about pita in that article that's missing from this one, so there's no merging to do. --IamNotU (talk) 21:05, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

Maybe Khubz should be a disambiguation page? Free1Soul (talk) 17:29, 13 December 2020 (UTC) sock

That's one of the suggestions I made above, and at Talk:Khubz. Maybe best to discuss it over there? --IamNotU (talk) 01:57, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Firmly Oppose. As previously commented upon in this talk page, Khubz is not the same thing as Pita, which is uniquely Greek; this has been previously laid out in detail on at least one occasion. Not only that, but "Khubz" would be the less popular name, so, if anything (which I'm firmly against any merger whatsoever), Khubz should be merged, not Pita, due to Pita being a infinitely and vastly more popular name in terms of the parlance of common usage. 108.235.248.227 (talk) 07:46, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose, they are not the same. Macedonian (talk) 10:04, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose There are some issues with khubz but merging into an unrelated article won't fix them. Spudlace (talk) 23:56, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose There should, if anything, be a more firm distinction be made between Khubz and pita... Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 06:31, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

"Roti pita" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Roti pita. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 May 7#Roti pita until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 18:48, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

Pluralization

Why does this article use "pita" as the plural of "pita"? (As of 8/1/2021, this occurs in several places in the article, e.g., "Most pita are baked at high temperatures...".) The plural in English should be "pitas". For perspective: The plural of "pita" in Modern Greek is "pites", but of course that need not inform how we use this borrowed word in English, just as the Italian plural of "pizza" ("pizze") does not and need not inform the standard English plural formation, "pizzas".

Sorry I am greek

Read to the end

Hi live in the UK but I am from Greece I have been living in England for my hole life but I can speek Greek and I say pita bread, bita bread and people make fun of me. (the reason why we say bita bread is we pronounce the b as a p( 86.18.93.86 (talk) 11:38, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

Pita is too general/whitewashed a term

To lump and redirect all pita or flat breads such as Lebanese Bread into this one tiny article — and then not mention them — is whitewashing. The differences — to put it in terms anglos might better understand — is like comparing hotdog rolls to sliced bread, except with thousands of years of different cultures behind each one. Anonapop (talk) 01:33, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

Israeli Hebrew pita does not come from "Classical Hebrew..."

Were the Israeli Hebrew word pita of "Classical Hebrew" origin, it would be stressed on the final syllable, but the fact that stress falls on the penultimate syllable points to Judezmo and Yidish as its immediate sources. Details here:

Gold, David L. 1989. "Another look at Israeli Hebrew pita 'flat bread': a borrowing from Judezmo and Yiddish." Romance Philology. Vol. 42. No.3. February. Pp. 276-278. S. Valkemirer (talk) 19:47, 24 March 2023 (UTC)