Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/True Heavy Metal
POV nonsense. 67.160.75.230 22:32, 20 Jun 2004 (UTC)
- Keep. I feel this is salvageable with some effort. -- Grunt 22:33, 2004 Jun 20 (UTC)
- Delete. POV essay and website advert, by a heavy metal fan obviously. I'm another fan of the genre, but this page is not remotely encyclopedic (nor entirely accurate IMO, I play my heaviest bass parts with a pick - not that it's relevant to whether we keep the article). Andrewa 03:14, 21 Jun 2004 (UTC)
- Delete: The author did a good job of trying to report rather than endorse, but the line between compound-noun-artform and adjective-noun-artform is a dark one. POV is intrinsic, and reporting on the POV questionable. It's kind of inescapable that a hierarchy of good/bad is going to be reiterated by the article. Geogre 03:11, 21 Jun 2004 (UTC)
- Delete - original research, not a report of a term in common use ('cos it isn't) - David Gerard 18:16, 21 Jun 2004 (UTC)
- Delete, David Gerard convinced me. Dpbsmith 22:40, 21 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Keep. It's not nonsense, and the POV problems not that bad. No different from Arts and Crafts Movement or the Pre-Raphaelite Brotherhood. You can't report on an artistic movement without giving an empathetic presentation of the movement's POV. I think the article is marginally OK already and is fairly easily salvageable. Rewrite the first three sections into a single section with a more neutral point of view (just the fact ma'am) regarding the movement and its creators. Follow it with "What is True Heavy Metal," rewritten without exclamation points in a more encyclopedic style. For example:
According to its proponents, true heavy metal is characterized by: a powerful screaming vocalist with a several-octave vocal range; a shredding lead guitarist who can both blow up and harmonize and or highlight the melody; a thumping bassist capable of good solo work; a double bass drummer with the flexibility to deal with changing time signatures; stage presence; and the use of original material rather than chipeing.
Then the list of "true heavy metal" bands. I don't think I should be the one try this because I detest heavy metal, whether true or phony, and know zilch about it. The only issue I see is whether the "True Heavy Metal" movement is reasonably famous or significant. If the list of bands is a list of bands who would identify themselves as aligned with the "True Heavy Metal," then there's no question as, unbelievably, even I recognize some of the names. Dpbsmith 18:33, 21 Jun 2004 (UTC) P. S. OTOH if David Gerard is right, then... never mind. I did mention that I know zilch about heavy metal, right? Dpbsmith 18:33, 21 Jun 2004 (UTC)- None of that list who are famous call it an artistic movement. This series of articles appears to be spam for Forever's End.
I could be wrong, of course- David Gerard 18:43, 21 Jun 2004 (UTC)- Is the section on "What is True Heavy Metal" an accurate statement of what aficionados prize and what is deemed to be the core of the form? If so, could it be used in the article on Heavy metal music? Dpbsmith 22:40, 21 Jun 2004 (UTC)
- Not sufficiently, and I'd want it referenced. The series is indeed Forever's End spam - check the URL of the reference for the section in question - David Gerard 23:01, 21 Jun 2004 (UTC)
- Is the section on "What is True Heavy Metal" an accurate statement of what aficionados prize and what is deemed to be the core of the form? If so, could it be used in the article on Heavy metal music? Dpbsmith 22:40, 21 Jun 2004 (UTC)
- None of that list who are famous call it an artistic movement. This series of articles appears to be spam for Forever's End.
- Delete. Conceptually POV - any salvagable info should be moved to Heavy metal. Davodd 00:12, Jun 22, 2004 (UTC)
- this is incredibly stupid as it stands. But it is a potentially salvagable entry. There should be an entry discussing the furious debate in the metal scene about what is true heavy metal, which, as this entry does note at one point, began with Man-o-war's claims to be true metal, and their slogan 'death to false metal', in the 80s.--XmarkX 11:00, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)
- Delete. It blatantly posits, even in the title, that other sub-genres of heavy metal don't have "quality" or "integrity" and aren't "True." Even if I feel personally that all heavy metal is cut from the same cloth of repetitive self-indulgent tantrums at 120 decibels, I don't write articles proclaiming that... Fire Star 21:55, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)
- Delete. Even the title is POV. Dukeofomnium 19:13, 23 Jun 2004 (UTC)